26 January 2009
 An interview with the man that signed Adam & the Ants to CBS Records in 1980.
Howard Thompson was the artists and repertoire (a&r) person responsible for scouting for new and existing acts for CBS. Howard was asked by Falcon Stuart, Adam's manager at the time, to go and see the band at the Empire in Leicester Square. After listening to a demo tape of Kings Of The Wild Frontier twice, Howard agreed to see them... The rest, as we say, is (making) history!
Howard was interviewed by Captain Cork, with special thanks to Marco Pirroni and Ant Lady for setting up the interview.
Howard Thompson worked for 25 years in the music industry. He signed, a&r-ed, licenced, produced, and even compiled music for many bands such as Aswad, Billy Bragg, Eddie and the Hotrods, Motörhead, The Psychedelic Furs and of course Adam & the Ants. He currently runs an online radio station and fascinating blog, both called North Fork Sound , in Suffolk, New York.
Howard very kindly agreed to answer some questions about his time with the Ants, after Marco Pirroni prompted the Family of Noise to do an interview.
(Cork's dialogue is in italics)
You first heard Adam & the Ants in 1977, and you weren't too impressed by the demo tape or his Vortex gig; to quote your blog "I couldn't relate to him, his fans or the tunes and found the whole thing slightly depressing. " Do you think that his punk image and punk following that were the main reasons for not signing him at that time? Or was it the music that primarily influenced your decision?
Well, firstly, I just didn't like his flirting with fascist symbols. I drew the line at that. I thought those tactics were cheap and I’d be surprised if he’s not just a little embarrassed by it now. Luckily, he turned toward 'kinky' sex as something that would make an impression. Better to turn people into John Willie afficionados than Nazis, I suppose. (John Willie is considered to be the father of modern fetishism.)
However, I didn't like Adam's material at the time. I thought it flimsy and not very engaging. Obviously, he matured and improved. I think Marco probably had quite a lot to do with that, at least in terms of musical focus. Maybe Chris Hughes had a positive effect too, but I was never privileged to witness their creative 'process'. By the time I saw them in the studio, the songs had pretty much been chosen and already well worked-out.
When he was signed by Decca did you feel any sense of disappointment for not having signed him yourself at that time?
Not really. In fact, I thought I'd dodged a bullet. I suspect some people at Decca were pretty disappointed that they signed him. And then, later, for dropping him!
Did you listen to Dirk Wears White Sox when it was released? If so did it change your opinion of Adam & the Ants?
No, I didn't listen to it. Even back then, there was always too much to hear. You had to establish some rules otherwise you'd just get bogged down in the sheer volume of stuff to check out. I do, however, believe people get 'better' with hard work and experience. I'd give people a second chance after some time had elapsed but I’d want to see significant progress made. Usually in the writing, performance and size-of-audience departments. Motörhead being a perfect (personal) example.
It was Falcon Stuart that gave you Adam's Kings of the Wild Frontier demo to listen to, do you think if it was anyone else handing you the tape that you wouldn't have bothered even listening to it?
By then, I'd been in a&r about 5 years. I'd built a few relationships. I knew a few people, knew who some of the players were. I trusted the taste of some managers, a few friends, certain reviewers...never a lawyer's! I can't explain why I liked Falcon. He wasn't exactly the friendliest person around. I got the sense he was an outsider. I was a bit of an outsider myself. I never ran with the a&r pack. My most successful signings were the ones people turned their noses up at, initially, at least. I kept to myself, and I think Falcon did too. I never liked X-Ray Spex, or Classix Nouveau (two of his clients), so it certainly wasn't his taste I was drawn to. I just had a hunch about him. He was on the scene, hooked in...to something anyway.
Still, I would see anybody who called to make an appointment, because you never know where the next big thing is coming from. And if you spelled my name, and the record company's name correctly on the envelope, I'd listen to all the tapes that I got sent, too. Then follow up with a phone call.
CBS Records Gold Record Presentation
The Empire gig that you attended in 1980 took you by surprise. Adam & the Ants had changed dramatically and so had their fan base; could you have predicted such a turn around with a band? Had you experienced such a change in any of the other groups that you had worked with in the past? Or since then even?
I hadn't predicted anything. I went because Falcon asked me to go, not really expecting much of anything. I liked the tape of the 2 songs he'd brought me (Kings/Press Darlings) - a lot - but had no idea that Adam had made such radical changes and had got it together. His audience was totally punk but it was like going to a Gary Glitter show, in terms of the EFFECT it had. It was totally showbiz, a choreographed spectacular... thoroughly entertaining, and it ROCKED. It was dirty/sweet and sexy as hell, both onstage and in the audience. Lots of Mohawks and bondage pants, people with ANTS written on their faces in mascara, or tattoo’d somewhere. Leather jackets. Adam had found his audience and they were ready to dance or have sex right there and then. But it wasn’t smutty or sordid, it was joyous and expressive. Until then, the sexual element of rock concerts was mostly confined to the stage but Adam opened it up to the audience, too.
I was very pleasantly shocked and looked around to see if any of my competition was there. I only recognized one person (from Virgin Records) and breathed a sigh of relief.
Had you experienced such a change in any of the other groups that you had worked with in the past? or since then even?
Not really. One hopes everybody you work with will develop over time. Perhaps the Happy Mondays made significantly better records each time out (with the exception of the live one, ha), but I think that was due to the producers more than the band. Billy Bragg became a much better singer, and looked to try new things, after a while. But the Ants went from b&w to COLOUR, just like that.
Did you realize at the time that you signed Adam that the Ants would be a success, or were they just another band of the times to you?
I’ve been very lucky throughout my career. I only ever signed artists I really liked and whose artistry I thoroughly believed in. Nobody was just another band. I signed artists because I wanted to see them on stage. As much as I like records – and I do, a LOT – I prefer the concert experience. That’s where you separate the true artists from the phonies. The artists I chose to work with were people who offered more (in either a musical, lyrical or sonic sense) than your typical pop star. Of course, not all of them reached the top of the charts – most didn’t - but I’ll stand by all the artists I signed. I always had a good reason for signing someone. Usually, it was because they DIDN’T sound like anyone else, whereas many of my a&r comrades would jump on trends and try to sign someone who sounded like a big, current act. Adam had found his own sound now.
Having said that, I think Adam And The Ants were the ONLY act I signed where I thought – going in – that they could be massive. I certainly can’t say that about any of the others – at the beginning - despite the fact some of them went on to sell millions of records. You always hope they can. Plus, I hate to burst any bubbles here, but the road to fame and fortune is littered with brilliant, deserving artists who somehow just never got the breaks. It’s not just all about talent, you know. The amount of money a record company will spend on promoting an artist has everything to do with it, too. At least it used to, back then. If the person at the top of the company, or the folks in the promotion or marketing department didn’t like you, you probably went unheard. I know... it’s fucked up, but that’s showbiz! If you want it bad enough, though, you might get through, eventually. I think Adam wanted it bad enough. Being dropped by Decca and Do It must’ve hurt. That would probably make most give up and get a job in the post office, or something. Adam always had a strong, rigid work ethic, so he was a good bet. So many musicians are musicians because they don’t want to work. They’re the ones who bitch about the record company, or the manager, or the reviewer or anything they can think of (that isn’t themselves) when things don’t work out.
Howard Thompson with Adam & the Ants at London Zoo
When you signed the band, you took them to London Zoo for the publicity shots with the insect house being a perfectly fitting place for the Ants! Later on some pictures were taken playing tennis with Falcon Stuart at Rockfield studios. It seems very unusual, is there a story behind that picture?
We were probably waiting for the (studio) engineer to show up, or something like that. I happened to look out of my bedroom window and there was Adam and Falcon, playing badminton (actually). I took the picture – sneakily - because I’d never seen Adam out of his ‘gear’, in regular human mode. Here, at last, was Stuart Goddard. I thought it was a touching image, one that few were privy to, that’s all.
Was it easy to work with Adam throughout your time with the band?
Yes. Until he ditched Falcon and teamed up with Don Murfet, whose background was ‘security’. His reputation was a bit dodgy and I know other folk at CBS found him difficult. Until he took over, Adam was reasonably ‘available’. He’d be in the offices a fair amount, especially when there was a single coming out. When Kings failed the first time out, he was very upset – quite rightly, in my opinion - and gave a few people a hard time about it. But, the general feeling out there in the beginning - in the press and at radio (forget television) - was that Adam was washed up and nobody could figure out why a company as big as CBS had bothered to get involved with him.
However, you rarely come across people like Adam Ant, and it didn’t take long for the strength of his personality – not to mention his talent – to convert people over to his side...for a few years, anyway. Adam really knew what he was doing and what he wanted by the time we worked together, so I thought it best to just step back and enjoy the ride. Then, in February of 82, I moved to the US and had very little contact going forward.
How soon into the deal did you realise Adam was such a control freak?
As soon as he gave me the label copy for the Kings single and said “EXACTLY like this, please. Nothing else”
I found this quote from Adam around the time of Kings:
"I know what I want on record and I want to go into that studio and get it. We haven't got it, yet, but we will get it 'cos nothings going on with 'The Ants' unless it's exactly Ant music. It's got to be Ant music. It's got to be fucking Ant music. I want to be proud to play it to anybody, that's all I'm in it for, to have good records out. Money can't buy the 'thing' you get when somebody sits there and appreciates your music, just no way. "
Would that be typical of his attitude back then, or did it develop as the recordings progressed?
I think it would be fair to say that was exactly what was in his head from day one. You know, it takes a little while to develop the skills to be able to deliver what you promise in any line of work. He was improving, learning all the time. He had a strong vision to start with and something to aim for.
You enlisted Chris Hughes' help with Adam's demands in the studio; did that make the albums and singles more enjoyable from your side of the table?
Chris was always going to be the producer, I didn’t enlist him. I did support the idea that he produce, however. Back then, he was experienced in the studio, but had not had any hit records. He’s an easygoing, professional person, with a good sense of humour. Plus he was a big Frank Zappa fan. I liked that. He took his job very seriously, but he could see the ‘funny’ side of everything that was going on all around him. In the studio, Chris was always hard at work, so we didn’t get much of a chance to socialize while he was working. After the Kings album, he became highly sought after as a producer so I hooked him up with his manager, a friend of mine - Max Hole. Turned out to be a mutually beneficial and long-lasting relationship.
I didn’t spend a lot of time in the studio. I had other artists on my books, too, so I’d stop in when invited. Usually when they had something nearly finished to play me.
You helped Adam & the Ants to achieve an amazing amount of success in quite a relatively short time considering they had been about for 4 years in the wilderness, how did it feel like at the time to be part of the history making process? Looking back now, how does it feel like?
I can’t take credit. All I did was start the wheels in motion. All successes are down to a dedicated bunch of people who simply do their job. There were some good people on the team and we all felt really good about Adam’s success, especially as we had come to it from a difficult starting point. Of course, it always starts with the artist, so without Adam, none of it would have happened, obviously. A lot of people in record companies forget that and start thinking they are the reason things happen.
Looking back, I feel very glad to have been part of it and Adam’s success put me where I wanted to be (America), so I’m grateful to him for that.
When Don Murfet first came on the scene, how were you informed about the new regime?
I really can’t remember. I do remember feeling sad for Falcon who really helped put Adam where he wanted to be.
Did you have any major arguments with Don to try and make Adam more available? And did you succeed in getting your way?
No. I hardly spoke to the man. I didn’t need to. Adam was in charge of his own musical direction and well capable of handling that. Don would have had to work with the marketing, press and promo people.
Howard Thompson with Marco Pirroni
When Prince Charming was being recorded you felt an air of madness surrounding the band, did you feel at that time that you had taken them as far as you could?
When things are that successful, it takes on its own momentum. The music was proving itself, so what was I going to do? Was I going to tell Adam to do something different, or what not to do? I don’t think so, and even if I did, all he would have done is say “look, I’ve been right so far, I’m doing it my way”. It’s hard to argue with success.
Your work with Adam helped you to move on to working with many other bands in the States, are you proud of your achievements with the group?
Do you mean Adam and The Ants or any of the other groups? Either way, the answer is “of course!”
How did the Ants compare to some of the other bands you were signing around the same time as far as how they managed themselves, their dedication and commitment to success, etc?
All bands are different so it’s not really fair to compare say, the Psychedelic Furs or Roky Erickson with Adam And The Ants. I signed them within a year or two of each other each for completely different reasons and, while I would have liked to see the Furs have more ‘hits’, I’m particularly pleased that they – Richard, in particular – had a successful music career. Roky is still out there, playing regularly. It’s not only about hit singles. It’s more like, can you help them have a career? Many of the artists I signed throughout my 25 year career a&ring (1975 – 2000) are still at it. Some of them never had ‘hits’, but they were good enough to make a living as a musician throughout the years. That’s what makes me feel good.
The pictures from your blog are fascinating; do you own the record acetates? If so, have you got any other acetate pictures that you would be willing to share?
I do own the acetates and have others, too. Eventually, I’ll send you some more jpegs.
On behalf of the Family of Noise, I'd like to thank Howard immensley for taking the time to answer my questions, some of which were contributed by Ant Lady, and Texas Ant.
|